I haven't posted anything in 8 or 9 days and it's really stressing me out. The primary culprits are my actually reading a book (gasp) for pleasure (double gasp) and fantasy football. For the record "Up In The Air" is a very strange book that left me deeply unsatisfied, which I think was the point, and yes my fantasy team still has legs because we run our playoffs during the playoffs which basically amounts to building an entire new team and doing tons of work, then entering ~200 bids on free agents after week 1 and then crossing your fingers and hoping the right teams make the super bowl. Go Vikings!
But I digress.....here is an 8/16 hand from a few weeks ago.
A fellow prop limps up front and so do some other people. I raise 88 OTB and we take a 6 way flop.
AK8r
Normally you want an ace high board when you flop a set, but when you're the aggressor my theory of "they always put you on ace king" makes a board like this tricky. But I bet and awesomely the prop check raises. I 3 and he caps and the poor big blind is stuck in the middle. At this point it becomes clear that the BB and the prop hate each other. Why? I don't know....but the hatred must run deep.
AK8-8
The BB checks and the prop leads. I raise and the BB tanks for nearly a minute before finally calling. The prop 3 bets, I cap, and the BB mucks in disgust. During the entire hand he and the prop have been yapping away at each other about chip burning and the prop's sister (whom, apparently, the BB feels has questionably lax standards regarding sexual partners).
The river peels off some blank card and the prop check/calls. A request is made to see his hand, by the big blind obviously, and he shows A9o. Now that's hate.....
Sunday, January 17, 2010
Thursday, January 7, 2010
I'll See One More
So I get to Garden City and for once actually do some good. A 20/40 game is 4.5 handed (Bo G is in the game taking up a seat but lobbying about as much as usual) and in desperate need of some propping. I oblige by sitting in the 7 seat, and Yoda texts me from the 9 seat to explain that seat 8 is quite the lagfish and he has the Jesus seat. Since 4, 5, and 6 are the other openings, I have little choice. This also makes it pretty obvious as to the current source of the action.
So we gamble a bit, and Yoda's claim is accurate as usual; Seat 8 is a pretty awful lag. But Yoda leaves at 11:15 and all is right in the universe again. Anna sits in and all of a sudden we are 7 handed with an avid reader pitching the cards from the dealer's seat and me comfortably entrenched in Yoda's old seat, making ready to 3-bet this guy with two napkins.
He's really been out of hand. Back raising T8hh from the button, 3-betting Jack high, all manner of atrocities. Doing stuff like this is OK if you hand read well, like, say, WTK or Jose. This guy....not so much. As a lead up to our hand, he raises KK and gets cracked by Q6 on a board of 663-J. The situation is made worse by his making of expert slow play by only calling the flop check raise. The bet/3-bet on the turn is swift and merciless, and when the hand ends our villain throws his cards at the dealer and talks about "queen six huh, couldn't let that one go, eh?" for like 5 minutes. In fact, he's still talking about it when I do this.
The action folds to our friend on the button and he decides that a power limp is the best course of action. The only situation in which it is mathematically correct to limp on the button is if you have aces, which are actually strong enough to slow play preflop 3-handed in limit hold 'em (this is actually a flaw with the game I think, there existing a hand with such power, but that's a discussion for another time). But since that's the only time you SHOULD do it, you should never do it. You get the idea. Anyway, our friend isn't open-limping aces. In fact, he doesn't even have AN ace. Or a King for that matter. Or any cards within two ranks of each other. So I peer down at the monster that is K9 offsuit and do what any sane human being would do in this situation with the nuts; I raise to try to knock out the big blind. I am once more smoted and the flop goes off 3-ways. Time for plan B. Flop the nuts.
AA5dd
Victory! I bet and the big blind folds. He could have had an ace, and if he had called this flop I'd have shut down and wondered where my $60 went, so that was good. Now I do in fact have the nuts, unless the button is somehow holding a 5 in his hand and even then I have pretty good equity since I have 6 outs straight away and will likely pick up 3 more on the turn. The button hems and haws for what feels like 30 seconds (actually probably 10) and eventually says "I'll see one more" and pitches in 4 chips. This is not an act. He has basically nothing and is peeling super light. I load up barrel number 2.
AA5dds-3s
I take a second to appraise the card (mostly just for rhythm purposes) and then fire ze missile. He calls, this time very slowly, but without a speech. I determine that he's either just paired his 3 or picked up some sort of draw (either a gutshot at the wheel or a spade draw). This is not good, obviously, but it's me we're talking about so not entirely unexpected.
AA5-3-Jr
I'm not really sure what to do but I quickly rule out betting, since he'll never call with a worse hand or fold a better one, so I check, hoping he checks it back. The guy bets pretty quickly, which is usually a sign that someone is betting a busted draw. If he had a pair he'd probably have to think for a second about whether or not I could possibly call with a hand he beats. So I call, and tables Q3cc for the turned pair of 3s after doing the thing where he picks up his cards and looks at me and says "I think you've got it" and after I turbo muck and actually laugh out loud he says "I don't know man, I don't beat much" and I just don't respond at all. As an aside, Tommy Angelo points out that the harshest thing you can do to an opponent who just put a wicked bad beat on you is fold your hand and not say a word. If they try to explain why they did what they did, the worst response they can get from you is nothing at all. So I tried that out here and I gotta say it felt awesome.
So we gamble a bit, and Yoda's claim is accurate as usual; Seat 8 is a pretty awful lag. But Yoda leaves at 11:15 and all is right in the universe again. Anna sits in and all of a sudden we are 7 handed with an avid reader pitching the cards from the dealer's seat and me comfortably entrenched in Yoda's old seat, making ready to 3-bet this guy with two napkins.
He's really been out of hand. Back raising T8hh from the button, 3-betting Jack high, all manner of atrocities. Doing stuff like this is OK if you hand read well, like, say, WTK or Jose. This guy....not so much. As a lead up to our hand, he raises KK and gets cracked by Q6 on a board of 663-J. The situation is made worse by his making of expert slow play by only calling the flop check raise. The bet/3-bet on the turn is swift and merciless, and when the hand ends our villain throws his cards at the dealer and talks about "queen six huh, couldn't let that one go, eh?" for like 5 minutes. In fact, he's still talking about it when I do this.
The action folds to our friend on the button and he decides that a power limp is the best course of action. The only situation in which it is mathematically correct to limp on the button is if you have aces, which are actually strong enough to slow play preflop 3-handed in limit hold 'em (this is actually a flaw with the game I think, there existing a hand with such power, but that's a discussion for another time). But since that's the only time you SHOULD do it, you should never do it. You get the idea. Anyway, our friend isn't open-limping aces. In fact, he doesn't even have AN ace. Or a King for that matter. Or any cards within two ranks of each other. So I peer down at the monster that is K9 offsuit and do what any sane human being would do in this situation with the nuts; I raise to try to knock out the big blind. I am once more smoted and the flop goes off 3-ways. Time for plan B. Flop the nuts.
AA5dd
Victory! I bet and the big blind folds. He could have had an ace, and if he had called this flop I'd have shut down and wondered where my $60 went, so that was good. Now I do in fact have the nuts, unless the button is somehow holding a 5 in his hand and even then I have pretty good equity since I have 6 outs straight away and will likely pick up 3 more on the turn. The button hems and haws for what feels like 30 seconds (actually probably 10) and eventually says "I'll see one more" and pitches in 4 chips. This is not an act. He has basically nothing and is peeling super light. I load up barrel number 2.
AA5dds-3s
I take a second to appraise the card (mostly just for rhythm purposes) and then fire ze missile. He calls, this time very slowly, but without a speech. I determine that he's either just paired his 3 or picked up some sort of draw (either a gutshot at the wheel or a spade draw). This is not good, obviously, but it's me we're talking about so not entirely unexpected.
AA5-3-Jr
I'm not really sure what to do but I quickly rule out betting, since he'll never call with a worse hand or fold a better one, so I check, hoping he checks it back. The guy bets pretty quickly, which is usually a sign that someone is betting a busted draw. If he had a pair he'd probably have to think for a second about whether or not I could possibly call with a hand he beats. So I call, and tables Q3cc for the turned pair of 3s after doing the thing where he picks up his cards and looks at me and says "I think you've got it" and after I turbo muck and actually laugh out loud he says "I don't know man, I don't beat much" and I just don't respond at all. As an aside, Tommy Angelo points out that the harshest thing you can do to an opponent who just put a wicked bad beat on you is fold your hand and not say a word. If they try to explain why they did what they did, the worst response they can get from you is nothing at all. So I tried that out here and I gotta say it felt awesome.
Tuesday, January 5, 2010
IMR
One night I was talking to Babar on g-chat and used the phrase "I mean really" at the end of a sentence. He liked it, saying that it's uses seemed almost boundless in terms of adding emphasis to a statement. Here's the conversation, which mind you was held after midnight pacific:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your definition of IMR!
Editors reviewed your entry and have decided to publish it on urbandictionary.com.
It should appear on this page in the next few days:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=IMR
Urban Dictionary
-----
IMR
I mean really
This phrase is used in online forums and blogs to add emphasize and sarcasm to a statement simultaneously:
Questioner: "Why did you raise the turn?"
Answerer: "I had 3 pair. IMR, 3 pair!"
12:19 AM BBB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fried_Coke
12:23 AM me: that's awful
I don't know why we fought so hard to get Texas back
BBB: lool
me: i mean really
BBB: im posting that on 2p2
12:24 AM me: fair
12:26 AM lmk where
BBB: nc thread med stakes
done
12:29 AM crossposted
to small steaks
the 'i mean really'
is the best part idk why
12:30 AM me: you can fry just about anytihng I guess
| 5 minutes |
12:36 AM BBB: i mean really
it adds so much power
to anything
DANIELLE WE'RE LATE FOR THE MOVIE.
12:37 AM I MEAN REALLY.
WE ARE LATE.
12:39 AM me: A good point you make
He 3-bet me with the 53 soooted
i mean really
53 sooted
12:40 AM BBB: lol
lol
lol
me: it seems like it could have boundless uses
BBB: so far i would describe it as full of win
i mean really
jam-packed chock-full
12:41 AM me: once again
[x] win
12:42 AM BBB: +1
see, staying up late is easy
just banter and trade inanities on instant messenger
i mean really, what more could you want?
12:46 AM me: nothing more
I'm catching up on my mid steaks posting
my dog is snoring
i mean really
he's snoring something fierce
BBB: record that shit
and put it in youtube obvies
12:47 AM lol i just saw
that u typed it
lol
So we started using it on two plus two in acronym form. At first people kind of ignored it. I'd just put IMR at the end of a sentence and they were probably reading it just as an exclamation point, which is basically accurate. Then a few people started to ask, and somebody said that he couldn't find it on Urban Dictionary. Well that we had to fix. So ladies and gentleman, I give you my first Urban Dictionary submission, the definition of IMR. Yes I know there is a typo, but I actually think that kind of adds something to it.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your definition of IMR!
Editors reviewed your entry and have decided to publish it on urbandictionary.com.
It should appear on this page in the next few days:
http://www.urbandictionary.
Urban Dictionary
-----
IMR
I mean really
This phrase is used in online forums and blogs to add emphasize and sarcasm to a statement simultaneously:
Questioner: "Why did you raise the turn?"
Answerer: "I had 3 pair. IMR, 3 pair!"
Monday, January 4, 2010
In Praise of Pete
Pete is pretty easily my best poker friend (sorry if anybody else thought he might have been it) for lots of reasons. We get along well, we (used to) play a lot together, and in general he's a fun guy to have at the table or play craps with in Vegas. These are the normal reasons you make a friend. However, another important reason our friendship has grown is that I've learned a ton about poker from Pete. I hope that I've taught him a few things as well, but I can't imagine the knowledge trade has been anywhere close to equitable. Everyone once in a while he does something at the table that almost makes my ears bleed. Here then is Pete's most recent taking of a soul.
The game is playing pretty aggressively for a Garden City 20/40, which is to say there is a good bit of raising and 3-betting preflop, along with the usual astonishing amount of cold-calling. We're basically playing showdown poker, which is an environment in which I tend to thrive. I'm good enough at making small moves at pots and playing in blind steal situations, but put me in a game where 6 guys see the flop for 2 bets a piece every hand and I'll get the money almost as fast as humanly possible. Maybe it's because those are the game conditions I "grew up" in, or maybe it's just because my grasp of odds and equities exceed my ability to read hand ranges, but I just love those games. The cast of characters is such:
Lowjack, 3 seats off the button: Pete
Highjack, 2 seats off the button: Jesse
Cutoff, 1 seat off the button: Elvis
Big blind, loser of soul: Aggro Bellagio 1oo/2oo Guy (ABG)
I have never seen ABG before and he is not a typical archetype for the game. It's pretty late at night and he's already explained that he just got back from Vegas at 9pm and is completely exhausted, to which I responded "So you thought you'd come out and play a little poker, eh?" and he grinned sheepishly. He apparently played the 100/200 game at the Bellagio and has told us all about it. For this game he fits the insanely aggro and a bit too lose profile to a T. He isn't afraid to raise and even 3-bet light, and he also loves him some positional cold-calling. A while back he cold-called my raise first in with QJo and gave me crap for the fact that I opened KTs. I said more than I should have, but you get the idea. Dude is not as good as he thinks he is, which is almost automatic since he thinks he's the best player that's set foot in the room all week. Truth be told he'd be lucky to be the 4th best player at the table right now. So, on to the hand.
It folds to Pete and he opens. I look down at KhQh, pause for a second, consider folding, then 3-bet. This is not a slam-dunk play by any stretch of the imagination, but Pete's range should be wide enough to make 3-betting him profitable here. And plus, it was suited. Elvis calls 3-cold in the cutoff next in like it's nothing. His involvement in this hand (and most games really) is simply to pad pots with bets going in bad and occasionally turn over some ridiculous two pair on the river. I like Elvis. The button and the small blind clear out, and ABG caps it out of the big blind. While he is definitely aggressive, capping out of the big blind in what is guaranteed to be a 3 or 4 way pot almost has to mean he has a real hand. My thought at the time was that he had JJ+ or AKs. In retrospect he's the kind of player that is absolutely not laying down any suited connector in that spot, and he's also the kind of player who would cap such a hand just for the hell of it. But moving right along....we all call.
16 small bets, 4 ways
Qd 4s 2s
ABG checks. This is dumbfounding to me. Pete checks. I think for a second and decide that I pretty much have to bet, even though ABG's check screams QQ. There are only 2 queens left, maybe he has JJ. Elvis calls and ABG check/raises and makes a speech saying "I hate you" or something. It wasn't like super malicious or anything it was just kind of something you'd expect a Bellagio 100/200 player to say. But still it's a speech, and we all know the power of speech (basically a guy who makes a speech has a powerful hand). Pete promptly 3-bets and I am horribly vexed. I go into the tank and decide that I'm drawing at somewhere between zero and five outs (I could only have 5 if Pete and ABG held exactly all 4 aces) and eventually toss my top pair second kicker into the muck in an already 11 big bet pot. Elvis calls two more like the champ that he is (that's $140 he's put into this pot mind you) and ABG just calls.
13 big bets, 3 ways
Qd 4s 2s - Jc
ABG donks. This again is dumbfounding to me. Literally before I can figure out what is happening Pete raises, Elvis folds, and ABG folds. Bada bing bada boom the 16 big bet pot belongs to Pete. There is a general murmur at the table in the sort of "WTF just happened here I wanted to see 19 bets go in on the turn" sense, but that is all we get.
Now for the post-mortem, which I can present because both Pete and ABG told me what they had (Pete via email later on, and ABG after Pete left in such a way that I'm sure he wasn't lying). Get ready for this. Pete had AQ, and ABG held KK. Pete basically turned his hand into a bluff by free-showdown-raising the turn (with the added bonus of facing Elvis with two bets cold) and was hoping to maybe get a fold out of a chop and figured it would be very difficult for ABG to 3-bet him so the cost was the same as just calling down from the turn donk. My read on the situation was way off. Here is what Pete had to say:
My preflop range in the LJ is probably like (range removed to protect the innocent). I was probably going to cap it pf for value against you and Elvis, but BB spoiled that plan, lol.
BB should have just bet/3-bet flop, or c/r/capped the flop as played. He played it the most weird (although my flop check was non-standard too, more on that later). I think the only interesting decision for you is the flop once I 3-bet. It probably is a good fold, though my read on his hand was different than yours.
The flop I wasn't bluffing. When he checked the flop, I was like wtf? AK? I checked the flop too because I wanted to keep my range pretty wide (like KTo, 66, JTs, ATs, etc. what I would open with) and more importantly I also felt you would bet the flop most of the time. I'm not sure if it was a read or just that a lot of your range should have pp's 77-AA, KQ/AQ/QJs. So this way I would have position on the flop basically and I could also get a read on the other players. The worst case is I give a free card to a 2 or 3-outer, but with AsQc on a Q-4-2ssc board, the free card isn't too bad, especially with the backdoor nut flush and straight draws.
When you bet and Elvis called, I was like OK, whatever, I'm probably going to c/r for value. Then BB thought a bit and c/r'd and I was thinking "well hmm, if I were in his spot I would do that with JJ and possibly TT (because I didn't read your hand as that strong) and him checking KK/AA seems kinda dumb. He could theoretically have KQ/AQ here too". The pot got up to gigantic proportions (20sb), so I also wanted to fold any of your/Elvis' 2-outers, so I decided to 3-bet.
You tanked and I honestly thought you had TT/JJ there, I didn't think you had KQ and I definitely didn't think you had AQ. Bad read. :-)
So Elvis called and BB just called, so I was like "OK, he doesn't have AA/KK". The turn he donk'd and I was like "wtf?". For sure this line is not a lot of strength, it's a "I don't want to give a free card to the spade draw" line and with me having the As, it's easy for me to have the flush draw. So I was like, "well, he's not strong, I felt his most likely hand was AQ/KQ (because his line is just straight retarded with KK/AA)" and so I wasn't sure if I was ahead or behind (maybe more likely I'm behind, but whatever, it's not like I'm going to fold), so I decided to FSDR and also overrepresent my hand a little bit (basically saying "no dummy, I don't have a flush draw, I'm still raising you and I don't care what you have and you are fucked") and try to get Elvis to fold whatever POS hand he had. Also, like I text'd, it's basically impossible for him to 3-bet me there with anything less than QJ+, so I wasn't really worried about that.
I was completely shocked that he folded, and even more shocked when you told me he had KK. I kind of understand from his POV, because he can't beat any reasonable pp (AA/QQ/JJ) or QJ now. I mean, it's almost like having KK on a Q-J-T-8 board. But yeah, there's no way I fold that in his shoes unless I'm against uber-nit boy. I guess he really thought I was a super-nit.
Just curious, what did you think I/BB had in that hand?
And my response was
Preflop after the action completed I put you on a pretty wide range obviously (something like 44+, AT+, A8s+, JTs+, KQ, KJ). I felt you might have folded some of these hands for 2 more bets (like maybe you muck ATo or QJo if that's in your range) but in general I 3-bet you with KQs so yeah....I put ABG (aggro bellagio guy) on a big hand preflop. Like TT+ or AK, and I was even discounting TT, JJ, and AK a bit. Capping out of the BB there in what's gonna be a 3-4 way pot is a huge show of strength.
The instant he checked the flop I put him on a very big hand. Afterward I realized that I had his preflop range so tight that basically all of it was a big hand so the check actually didn't give any information. I mean he could check AK of red there figuring he was playing showdown poker. He could check QQ there to make expert slowplay. He could check JJ or TT I guess but that'd be bad. Honestly he could even check AA there. So his check I just continued to put him on "big hand". Your check meant to me "lols, he has jack high yahoo!". So I bet. Elvis called which means his cards hadn't been accidentally mucked. Then the raise came, confirming to me that he had QQ+. Then you 3-bet, and I put you on basically the same range, QQ+. Of course you can both have AQ some of the time (but I discounted it, for you because I thought you'd figure it was behind ABG's range and for ABG because of the preflop and flop action), and especially AQss. Also AKss is possible but I can't imagine ABG checking that hand. You're still allowed to have QJss, KQss, and a set of 4s though also.
When he donked the turn my head almost exploded, but I still basically put him on QQ+. I actually thought "He's going to 3-bet Pete with QQ" and cringed when you raised. When you raised again I figured you had to have a set, QJ, or MAYBE AA. Then he folded and I decided he could only possibly have AQ and that you just raised out the worst hand.
I thought this hand was amazingly interesting, and I spent a lot of extra brain cycles thinking about it the rest of the night. Basically Pete realized that since he was very unlikely to get 3-bet on the turn the free showdown raise was an effective way to play the hand. He might have even gotten lucky that Elvis was still in the hand, because he'd have been less inclined to stick in the raise heads up. He basically eliminated AA and KK from ABG's range, which turned out to be incorrect, but not entirely. Pete was correct that playing AA or KK that way would be completely ridiculous, so he discounted it. A corollary here is that if ABG did play AA or KK that way, he's likely to do something else completely ridiculous the rest of the hand. It makes perfect sense right? We can't figure out what was going on his head so far, so why would we assume we can know what he's planning to do for the rest of the hand? We simply can't. So raise, and get him to fold a hand with 85% equity in a 15 bet pot. I'd have never done it, and I'd have lost the hand. Pete did it and basically stole a week's worth of EV.
Long live Pete, taker of souls, slayer of dragons.
The game is playing pretty aggressively for a Garden City 20/40, which is to say there is a good bit of raising and 3-betting preflop, along with the usual astonishing amount of cold-calling. We're basically playing showdown poker, which is an environment in which I tend to thrive. I'm good enough at making small moves at pots and playing in blind steal situations, but put me in a game where 6 guys see the flop for 2 bets a piece every hand and I'll get the money almost as fast as humanly possible. Maybe it's because those are the game conditions I "grew up" in, or maybe it's just because my grasp of odds and equities exceed my ability to read hand ranges, but I just love those games. The cast of characters is such:
Lowjack, 3 seats off the button: Pete
Highjack, 2 seats off the button: Jesse
Cutoff, 1 seat off the button: Elvis
Big blind, loser of soul: Aggro Bellagio 1oo/2oo Guy (ABG)
I have never seen ABG before and he is not a typical archetype for the game. It's pretty late at night and he's already explained that he just got back from Vegas at 9pm and is completely exhausted, to which I responded "So you thought you'd come out and play a little poker, eh?" and he grinned sheepishly. He apparently played the 100/200 game at the Bellagio and has told us all about it. For this game he fits the insanely aggro and a bit too lose profile to a T. He isn't afraid to raise and even 3-bet light, and he also loves him some positional cold-calling. A while back he cold-called my raise first in with QJo and gave me crap for the fact that I opened KTs. I said more than I should have, but you get the idea. Dude is not as good as he thinks he is, which is almost automatic since he thinks he's the best player that's set foot in the room all week. Truth be told he'd be lucky to be the 4th best player at the table right now. So, on to the hand.
It folds to Pete and he opens. I look down at KhQh, pause for a second, consider folding, then 3-bet. This is not a slam-dunk play by any stretch of the imagination, but Pete's range should be wide enough to make 3-betting him profitable here. And plus, it was suited. Elvis calls 3-cold in the cutoff next in like it's nothing. His involvement in this hand (and most games really) is simply to pad pots with bets going in bad and occasionally turn over some ridiculous two pair on the river. I like Elvis. The button and the small blind clear out, and ABG caps it out of the big blind. While he is definitely aggressive, capping out of the big blind in what is guaranteed to be a 3 or 4 way pot almost has to mean he has a real hand. My thought at the time was that he had JJ+ or AKs. In retrospect he's the kind of player that is absolutely not laying down any suited connector in that spot, and he's also the kind of player who would cap such a hand just for the hell of it. But moving right along....we all call.
16 small bets, 4 ways
Qd 4s 2s
ABG checks. This is dumbfounding to me. Pete checks. I think for a second and decide that I pretty much have to bet, even though ABG's check screams QQ. There are only 2 queens left, maybe he has JJ. Elvis calls and ABG check/raises and makes a speech saying "I hate you" or something. It wasn't like super malicious or anything it was just kind of something you'd expect a Bellagio 100/200 player to say. But still it's a speech, and we all know the power of speech (basically a guy who makes a speech has a powerful hand). Pete promptly 3-bets and I am horribly vexed. I go into the tank and decide that I'm drawing at somewhere between zero and five outs (I could only have 5 if Pete and ABG held exactly all 4 aces) and eventually toss my top pair second kicker into the muck in an already 11 big bet pot. Elvis calls two more like the champ that he is (that's $140 he's put into this pot mind you) and ABG just calls.
13 big bets, 3 ways
Qd 4s 2s - Jc
ABG donks. This again is dumbfounding to me. Literally before I can figure out what is happening Pete raises, Elvis folds, and ABG folds. Bada bing bada boom the 16 big bet pot belongs to Pete. There is a general murmur at the table in the sort of "WTF just happened here I wanted to see 19 bets go in on the turn" sense, but that is all we get.
Now for the post-mortem, which I can present because both Pete and ABG told me what they had (Pete via email later on, and ABG after Pete left in such a way that I'm sure he wasn't lying). Get ready for this. Pete had AQ, and ABG held KK. Pete basically turned his hand into a bluff by free-showdown-raising the turn (with the added bonus of facing Elvis with two bets cold) and was hoping to maybe get a fold out of a chop and figured it would be very difficult for ABG to 3-bet him so the cost was the same as just calling down from the turn donk. My read on the situation was way off. Here is what Pete had to say:
My preflop range in the LJ is probably like (range removed to protect the innocent). I was probably going to cap it pf for value against you and Elvis, but BB spoiled that plan, lol.
BB should have just bet/3-bet flop, or c/r/capped the flop as played. He played it the most weird (although my flop check was non-standard too, more on that later). I think the only interesting decision for you is the flop once I 3-bet. It probably is a good fold, though my read on his hand was different than yours.
The flop I wasn't bluffing. When he checked the flop, I was like wtf? AK? I checked the flop too because I wanted to keep my range pretty wide (like KTo, 66, JTs, ATs, etc. what I would open with) and more importantly I also felt you would bet the flop most of the time. I'm not sure if it was a read or just that a lot of your range should have pp's 77-AA, KQ/AQ/QJs. So this way I would have position on the flop basically and I could also get a read on the other players. The worst case is I give a free card to a 2 or 3-outer, but with AsQc on a Q-4-2ssc board, the free card isn't too bad, especially with the backdoor nut flush and straight draws.
When you bet and Elvis called, I was like OK, whatever, I'm probably going to c/r for value. Then BB thought a bit and c/r'd and I was thinking "well hmm, if I were in his spot I would do that with JJ and possibly TT (because I didn't read your hand as that strong) and him checking KK/AA seems kinda dumb. He could theoretically have KQ/AQ here too". The pot got up to gigantic proportions (20sb), so I also wanted to fold any of your/Elvis' 2-outers, so I decided to 3-bet.
You tanked and I honestly thought you had TT/JJ there, I didn't think you had KQ and I definitely didn't think you had AQ. Bad read. :-)
So Elvis called and BB just called, so I was like "OK, he doesn't have AA/KK". The turn he donk'd and I was like "wtf?". For sure this line is not a lot of strength, it's a "I don't want to give a free card to the spade draw" line and with me having the As, it's easy for me to have the flush draw. So I was like, "well, he's not strong, I felt his most likely hand was AQ/KQ (because his line is just straight retarded with KK/AA)" and so I wasn't sure if I was ahead or behind (maybe more likely I'm behind, but whatever, it's not like I'm going to fold), so I decided to FSDR and also overrepresent my hand a little bit (basically saying "no dummy, I don't have a flush draw, I'm still raising you and I don't care what you have and you are fucked") and try to get Elvis to fold whatever POS hand he had. Also, like I text'd, it's basically impossible for him to 3-bet me there with anything less than QJ+, so I wasn't really worried about that.
I was completely shocked that he folded, and even more shocked when you told me he had KK. I kind of understand from his POV, because he can't beat any reasonable pp (AA/QQ/JJ) or QJ now. I mean, it's almost like having KK on a Q-J-T-8 board. But yeah, there's no way I fold that in his shoes unless I'm against uber-nit boy. I guess he really thought I was a super-nit.
Just curious, what did you think I/BB had in that hand?
And my response was
Preflop after the action completed I put you on a pretty wide range obviously (something like 44+, AT+, A8s+, JTs+, KQ, KJ). I felt you might have folded some of these hands for 2 more bets (like maybe you muck ATo or QJo if that's in your range) but in general I 3-bet you with KQs so yeah....I put ABG (aggro bellagio guy) on a big hand preflop. Like TT+ or AK, and I was even discounting TT, JJ, and AK a bit. Capping out of the BB there in what's gonna be a 3-4 way pot is a huge show of strength.
The instant he checked the flop I put him on a very big hand. Afterward I realized that I had his preflop range so tight that basically all of it was a big hand so the check actually didn't give any information. I mean he could check AK of red there figuring he was playing showdown poker. He could check QQ there to make expert slowplay. He could check JJ or TT I guess but that'd be bad. Honestly he could even check AA there. So his check I just continued to put him on "big hand". Your check meant to me "lols, he has jack high yahoo!". So I bet. Elvis called which means his cards hadn't been accidentally mucked. Then the raise came, confirming to me that he had QQ+. Then you 3-bet, and I put you on basically the same range, QQ+. Of course you can both have AQ some of the time (but I discounted it, for you because I thought you'd figure it was behind ABG's range and for ABG because of the preflop and flop action), and especially AQss. Also AKss is possible but I can't imagine ABG checking that hand. You're still allowed to have QJss, KQss, and a set of 4s though also.
When he donked the turn my head almost exploded, but I still basically put him on QQ+. I actually thought "He's going to 3-bet Pete with QQ" and cringed when you raised. When you raised again I figured you had to have a set, QJ, or MAYBE AA. Then he folded and I decided he could only possibly have AQ and that you just raised out the worst hand.
I thought this hand was amazingly interesting, and I spent a lot of extra brain cycles thinking about it the rest of the night. Basically Pete realized that since he was very unlikely to get 3-bet on the turn the free showdown raise was an effective way to play the hand. He might have even gotten lucky that Elvis was still in the hand, because he'd have been less inclined to stick in the raise heads up. He basically eliminated AA and KK from ABG's range, which turned out to be incorrect, but not entirely. Pete was correct that playing AA or KK that way would be completely ridiculous, so he discounted it. A corollary here is that if ABG did play AA or KK that way, he's likely to do something else completely ridiculous the rest of the hand. It makes perfect sense right? We can't figure out what was going on his head so far, so why would we assume we can know what he's planning to do for the rest of the hand? We simply can't. So raise, and get him to fold a hand with 85% equity in a 15 bet pot. I'd have never done it, and I'd have lost the hand. Pete did it and basically stole a week's worth of EV.
Long live Pete, taker of souls, slayer of dragons.
Saturday, January 2, 2010
How It Is That I Won Six Racks
My last two nights of propping have been nothing short of fantastic in all regards. First of all, from a completely objective point of view I got to play in the exact game I prefer, 20/40, for almost the entirety of both shifts (in 14 hours I think I logged 13.25 hours of 20/40 play). Second of all, the games that I found myself in were fantastic (more on that in a bit obviously). This is important when evaluating the success of this prop position, as I know that in general I could opt to play in some pretty soft 20/40 games during the day, and if the graveyard 20/40 games simply aren't as good I'm taking a slight hit that while manageable is something I should be aware of. Third of all, I had a blast and ran like Jesus on a scooter. That's pretty obvious, because no matter how good a game is you can't expect to win 6 racks in 6 hours.
The actual game Tuesday night was the stuff that legends are made of. We had three players taking almost any two cards to the turn. A lot of the hands were a blur, but some gems:
SB calls nit-props raise with T2hh and takes two to the face on a board of AJ4 with one of her suit. Obviously she runs down a wheel (she did flop not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 runner-runner draws to two pair or better) and responds with "I was the big blind!". Nit-prop promptly berates here in Chinese with Mr. Wong for the next ten minutes, and while my Mandarin is non-existent, I was able to make out "Ten Two!" the 5 or 6 times it came up. Nit-prop should know better than to do this. It was obvious that he was berating her in Chinese to anyone with 14 or more functioning brain cells. But 20/40 does not have the 14 brain cell requirement, just the $200 one, so who knows, maybe he was safer than I thought.
A while later nit-prop raises again and the button (let us call him the gentle giant) takes two to the face. The flop is Q84 and the gentle giant calls again. The turn is a 7, and now the gentle giant raises. The river pairs the 7, and he bets and collects a call from nit-props AA. What does he have? K7o. Nit-prop is beside himself. Even I have to admit that what we just saw was truly special. It is one thing to be a maniac; as WTK has shown rampant aggression, if somewhat well-placed, can be used to one's advantage. But to raise the turn with 3rd pair no draw when nit-prop has bet into 3 people is suicide. I thought about it for a while, and I decided that there is no clear answer to the question "which street did he play the worst?" It simply is an unknowable quantity.
There were more gems like this spattered all over the night. To give you an idea of how loose this game was, four of us had overs buttons and we didn't have a chance to use them for 75 minutes. That's right, four of the nine players in the game had overs, and for the next hour and fifteen minutes not a single situation occurred in which only those players were in the pot for the start of a post-flop street. Think about that...all it takes is one river to be HU or even 3-way amongst just the overs players. Didn't happen. Eventually I turned mine in on the premise of "what's the point" and my comrades had to agree.
Then there was me. I moved to the table at about 12:30am (actually I moved specifically to take a break so I could call Danielle to say goodnight) and at the time was stuck about a rack. I lost a little more, and added on for all the chips I had taken out of my box, putting me into the game for about 4 racks. From that moment forward, I could do no wrong. 6 way pot raised from the CO? I'll call with KJs in the SB and flop a king. And it'll hold up the whole way down. Pocket fours? I'll flop a set. Twice. In 10 minutes. KTo in a 7 way raised pot? Board will run out QJ4cc-2s-9c and I will donk the river and get called in two spots of the 3 remaining hands and nobody will have a flush. You have AJs? My JT will crush you. It simply did not matter. Even when I lost things went well.
6 way pot and I have black kings on the button. The flop is:
762 with two clubs
I bet and like 4 of them call.
762-A with 3 clubs now
The SB checks, and the BB donks. Everyone else mucks and I call with my nut flush draw. The SB just calls.
762-A-2
The SB donks and the BB raises. I muck and the SB calls. He has A7 for top two, which he didn't see fit to raise on the turn. She has 62s for the full house, which she decided to check/call on the flop and donk on the turn. I was up against 4 pairs on the turn and got away with putting in one bet when I was drawing live at 9 outs. Just wow.
As the clock struck 6am nit-prop nit-quit the game once again (this is a new term of mine, nit-quit, to quit a game in such a nitty fashion that it is hard to believe the person who just did it had the courage to sit in the game in the first place) by stating that since my shift was over and that left the game with 2 props and 3 players they should just make the other game 10 handed (it had two seats). He of course did this right after I paid my big blind and he raised it from UTG with no doubt like pocket queens. But it didn't matter. I organized my 10 racks of chips and waddled to the cage, trying to take the time to remember how it feels to run that good.
The actual game Tuesday night was the stuff that legends are made of. We had three players taking almost any two cards to the turn. A lot of the hands were a blur, but some gems:
SB calls nit-props raise with T2hh and takes two to the face on a board of AJ4 with one of her suit. Obviously she runs down a wheel (she did flop not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 runner-runner draws to two pair or better) and responds with "I was the big blind!". Nit-prop promptly berates here in Chinese with Mr. Wong for the next ten minutes, and while my Mandarin is non-existent, I was able to make out "Ten Two!" the 5 or 6 times it came up. Nit-prop should know better than to do this. It was obvious that he was berating her in Chinese to anyone with 14 or more functioning brain cells. But 20/40 does not have the 14 brain cell requirement, just the $200 one, so who knows, maybe he was safer than I thought.
A while later nit-prop raises again and the button (let us call him the gentle giant) takes two to the face. The flop is Q84 and the gentle giant calls again. The turn is a 7, and now the gentle giant raises. The river pairs the 7, and he bets and collects a call from nit-props AA. What does he have? K7o. Nit-prop is beside himself. Even I have to admit that what we just saw was truly special. It is one thing to be a maniac; as WTK has shown rampant aggression, if somewhat well-placed, can be used to one's advantage. But to raise the turn with 3rd pair no draw when nit-prop has bet into 3 people is suicide. I thought about it for a while, and I decided that there is no clear answer to the question "which street did he play the worst?" It simply is an unknowable quantity.
There were more gems like this spattered all over the night. To give you an idea of how loose this game was, four of us had overs buttons and we didn't have a chance to use them for 75 minutes. That's right, four of the nine players in the game had overs, and for the next hour and fifteen minutes not a single situation occurred in which only those players were in the pot for the start of a post-flop street. Think about that...all it takes is one river to be HU or even 3-way amongst just the overs players. Didn't happen. Eventually I turned mine in on the premise of "what's the point" and my comrades had to agree.
Then there was me. I moved to the table at about 12:30am (actually I moved specifically to take a break so I could call Danielle to say goodnight) and at the time was stuck about a rack. I lost a little more, and added on for all the chips I had taken out of my box, putting me into the game for about 4 racks. From that moment forward, I could do no wrong. 6 way pot raised from the CO? I'll call with KJs in the SB and flop a king. And it'll hold up the whole way down. Pocket fours? I'll flop a set. Twice. In 10 minutes. KTo in a 7 way raised pot? Board will run out QJ4cc-2s-9c and I will donk the river and get called in two spots of the 3 remaining hands and nobody will have a flush. You have AJs? My JT will crush you. It simply did not matter. Even when I lost things went well.
6 way pot and I have black kings on the button. The flop is:
762 with two clubs
I bet and like 4 of them call.
762-A with 3 clubs now
The SB checks, and the BB donks. Everyone else mucks and I call with my nut flush draw. The SB just calls.
762-A-2
The SB donks and the BB raises. I muck and the SB calls. He has A7 for top two, which he didn't see fit to raise on the turn. She has 62s for the full house, which she decided to check/call on the flop and donk on the turn. I was up against 4 pairs on the turn and got away with putting in one bet when I was drawing live at 9 outs. Just wow.
As the clock struck 6am nit-prop nit-quit the game once again (this is a new term of mine, nit-quit, to quit a game in such a nitty fashion that it is hard to believe the person who just did it had the courage to sit in the game in the first place) by stating that since my shift was over and that left the game with 2 props and 3 players they should just make the other game 10 handed (it had two seats). He of course did this right after I paid my big blind and he raised it from UTG with no doubt like pocket queens. But it didn't matter. I organized my 10 racks of chips and waddled to the cage, trying to take the time to remember how it feels to run that good.
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